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	<title>Comments on: At the junction</title>
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	<link>http://www.likelihoodofsuccess.com/2009/06/24/at-the-junction/</link>
	<description>Ron Coleman’s retired general topic blog</description>
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		<title>By: Ron Coleman</title>
		<link>http://www.likelihoodofsuccess.com/2009/06/24/at-the-junction/comment-page-1/#comment-6448</link>
		<dc:creator>Ron Coleman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Jul 2009 18:22:27 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>No slam at libertarianism is gratuitous!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No slam at libertarianism is gratuitous!</p>
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		<title>By: David Nieporent</title>
		<link>http://www.likelihoodofsuccess.com/2009/06/24/at-the-junction/comment-page-1/#comment-6373</link>
		<dc:creator>David Nieporent</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Jun 2009 16:49:42 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>I don&#039;t see how the gratuitous slam at libertarians belongs with the rest of the post, which otherwise focuses on utilitarians.

Libertarians argue that train stations ought to be privatized, not that they ought to be ugly.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t see how the gratuitous slam at libertarians belongs with the rest of the post, which otherwise focuses on utilitarians.</p>
<p>Libertarians argue that train stations ought to be privatized, not that they ought to be ugly.</p>
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		<title>By: Ron Coleman</title>
		<link>http://www.likelihoodofsuccess.com/2009/06/24/at-the-junction/comment-page-1/#comment-6343</link>
		<dc:creator>Ron Coleman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Jun 2009 21:00:36 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Alon, I can&#039;t think of anything in your comment here I disagree with.  You are very insightful.  On the other hand I am not clear as to the point of your second paragraph.

What&#039;s your view of Robert Moses?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Alon, I can&#8217;t think of anything in your comment here I disagree with.  You are very insightful.  On the other hand I am not clear as to the point of your second paragraph.</p>
<p>What&#8217;s your view of Robert Moses?</p>
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		<title>By: Alon Levy</title>
		<link>http://www.likelihoodofsuccess.com/2009/06/24/at-the-junction/comment-page-1/#comment-6338</link>
		<dc:creator>Alon Levy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Jun 2009 15:12:07 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Ron, American inner cities declined for many reasons, few of which are about civic pride or humane buildings. The urban renewal czars&#039; sin was to destroy communities based on what they believed was how a city ought to look. Jane Jacobs referred to that view, which created monstrosities like Lincoln Center and World Trade Center, as trying to make cities look like art pieces.

Art pieces, of course, have no community of people who have to live in them. Nor do they object when they&#039;re drawn in a certain way. They don&#039;t object when parts of them are torn into pieces to build freeways, or when they&#039;re redlined. They&#039;re there to look pretty, not to speak for themselves.

In fact, the urban renewal czars could and did say, with some justification, that they were destroying slums, with bad social mores, and grim, unlit buildings. To this day, New York&#039;s housing projects have better lighting than its tenements. Ironically, train stations in the style of Grand Central and the old Penn Station, built to be imposing and to let everyone know how grand the railway is, have a lot more in common with projects than with brownstones.

In the other thread, some other commenters quoted Jane Jacobs as saying that with the destruction of Penn Station, people came into New York as rats rather than kings. I haven&#039;t read anything in Jacobs that complains about the new Penn Station, at all. This quote is most likely from Lewis Mumford, who was a fan of urban renewal as long as it was in the style he approved of. Demolishing several blocks on the Upper West Side to make room for Lincoln Center was okay with him (that&#039;s how he thought cities could compete with the Interstate Highway-subsidized suburbs for middle class residents); demolishing one train station to build another was not.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ron, American inner cities declined for many reasons, few of which are about civic pride or humane buildings. The urban renewal czars&#8217; sin was to destroy communities based on what they believed was how a city ought to look. Jane Jacobs referred to that view, which created monstrosities like Lincoln Center and World Trade Center, as trying to make cities look like art pieces.</p>
<p>Art pieces, of course, have no community of people who have to live in them. Nor do they object when they&#8217;re drawn in a certain way. They don&#8217;t object when parts of them are torn into pieces to build freeways, or when they&#8217;re redlined. They&#8217;re there to look pretty, not to speak for themselves.</p>
<p>In fact, the urban renewal czars could and did say, with some justification, that they were destroying slums, with bad social mores, and grim, unlit buildings. To this day, New York&#8217;s housing projects have better lighting than its tenements. Ironically, train stations in the style of Grand Central and the old Penn Station, built to be imposing and to let everyone know how grand the railway is, have a lot more in common with projects than with brownstones.</p>
<p>In the other thread, some other commenters quoted Jane Jacobs as saying that with the destruction of Penn Station, people came into New York as rats rather than kings. I haven&#8217;t read anything in Jacobs that complains about the new Penn Station, at all. This quote is most likely from Lewis Mumford, who was a fan of urban renewal as long as it was in the style he approved of. Demolishing several blocks on the Upper West Side to make room for Lincoln Center was okay with him (that&#8217;s how he thought cities could compete with the Interstate Highway-subsidized suburbs for middle class residents); demolishing one train station to build another was not.</p>
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