The Pope is Catholic. Rudy Giuliani is a politician.
Mar 13, 2007 Faith and Works, O Mores!, Politics and Poker
It should not be newsworthy that the Pope insists that Catholics, including politicians, take their faith seriously, not as something for Sunday in the pews but as something that guides their moral choices — even if they are officers in a democracy. But this Pope does have a spine, if much of the Vatican “career staff” that serves him doesn’t.
On the other hand, Allahpundit’s obsession (in the link) with the un-Catholic public policy stands of Rudy Giuliani is not new. I can’t imagine Giuliani even holds himself out as a practicing Catholic except in the most nominal sense, being on his third wife and all, but if I am wrong about this I will say I am not surprised. I expect little from politicians, even those I admire in their roles (not as role models) and support. But while I hesitate to speak for traditional Catholics, I can imagine that they expect, and are happy to get, far more from their religious leaders.
And that is not something to take for granted.
If I thought he were listening, I would advise my old friend Allahpundit not to get too hung up on Giuliani’s departure from the creed. That doesn’t mean he shouldn’t have his feet held to the fire on these issues, and that it isn’t a good idea for conservatives to be the ones to do it — I think we should. I just don’t think there are all that many people left who don’t know that Giuliani has historically been pro-abortion, even though he is actually rather conservative – or makes the conservative move — on many social issues. And after all, the present President was rock-solid on abortion. But even Allah has to admit that, from a conservative point of view, that choice (if you’ll pardon the expression) has not necessarily worked out so well.
That is the problem with single-issue candidates. We’ve all been there — I voted for Clinton in 1992 to punish GHWB for James (”F the Jews”) Baker — and we’ve all been burned. Is that the stake you want to flame out on, Allah? Because I’m not so sure the Church is going to keep you company.
UPDATE: Megan McArdle points to this post from the Economist:
But I, for one, am not going to accept for much longer that Republicans don’t know enough about Mr Giuliani (have you heard he’s pro-choice and had gay roommates?) to dump him, or that Democrats don’t yet know enough about Barack Obama (have you heard how charismatic he is?) to dump Ms Clinton. Both of those stories have been written over and over; the secret is pretty well out.
Forget the second part. Someone tell me: Has anyone on the right suggested that having (temporary, not that it matters) gay roommates could possibly be a relevant consideration in assessing Giuliani’s fitness to govern? I’m not exactly a standard bearer for gay rights but yes, darn it, some of my best friends actually are homosexuals. You can have your one-issue candidates and litmus test — but God help us if that one issue is what your friends do behind closed doors. Even if you have a key.
March 13th, 2007 at 10:02 pm
The Pope is Catholic
And Rudy Giulani? He’s not the Pope. He’s a career politician. Different job. I discuss the distinction, and the danger of single-issue coting, at
March 13th, 2007 at 10:02 pm
The Pope is Catholic
And Rudy Giulani? He’s not the Pope. He’s a career politician. Different job. I discuss the distinction, and the danger of single-issue coting, at
March 13th, 2007 at 10:35 pm
I grew up in CA under very ‘liberal’ influence.I was never very much politically aware or concerned, but i did ‘know’ at a visceral level that the two most evil, vile, greedy, poor-hating individuals in the history of the planet were Ronald Reagen and Newt Gingrich.I’ve since grown up to learn that things were never that simple, and the more I read of Gingrich the more I think that he is a true intellectual and would probably make a great chief executive.But nevertheless when i hear it suggested in certain places that he actually run for the office,i can help but think that sober minded people have absolutely no idea how viscerally hated he is by your average Joe, the real independent who can for the time being be convinced to vote against those who would give or promise to give him booty in favor for a leader who will work ensure his safety and at the very least veto policies that are really,utterly mad.
I really think that economic conservatism is a losing battle and that people who don’t want this country to be ruled by a frothing
mob should get behind this Rudy fellow because,well, he’s cool and sexy and confident and can win.Period
March 13th, 2007 at 10:57 pm
In the interest of accuracy I retract “ensure his safety “.I think Americans can remain safe for a very long time despite the enactment of laws that are insane.Thank G-d for the Atlantic.
March 13th, 2007 at 11:33 pm
I have a hard time understanding why the Church (any major Church, not just Catholicism) go out of their way to “punish” candidates form their respected faiths for not spouting their theology on each and every issue. I wonder if the Vatican will come out and comment on his relationship issues.
What I find stupendous however, is that both Rudy and McCain are frontrunners for the Republican nomination. The idea of having two practical and intelligent Republicans dueling for the nomination was something I feared had been discarded in the last few years.
March 13th, 2007 at 11:51 pm
Well I think McCain is running himself out of the running. Or else he’s trying to outflank Rudy from the left — bad idea.
March 14th, 2007 at 12:57 am
It is odd that McCain has been missing so many obvious chances to stump for the nomination. I don’t know what’s going on with his campaign in that regard. His organization seems to be having some problems at the moment. I will say however, that he looks like the best guy for the job at this point even though I could see myself supporting Rudy.
It looks to me like McCain is trying as hard as he can to be the electable “conservative” candidate, and I don’t think he will have much hope when it comes to picking up left leaning voters. His ardent support for the War effort disqualifies him on that front.
And good God Ron, do you ever sleep?!
March 14th, 2007 at 12:24 pm
As a venerable Republicanist (which means I’ve been a minor local political hack for them for more years that I can remember), I’m quite sure Rudi Giuliani will be the GOP candidate. Not just because the polls show him ahead of his competition some 20 months ahead of the election and 11 months before the new super week primaries more or less seal the presidential candidacies of both major parties. More significant is that the Republican Party in general is desparate regain equilibrium with the Democratic Party. They know they cannot accomplish this without moving toward the center. Therefore, most of the religious right will grit their teeth and go with someone they are certain can beat Senator Hilary Clinton in the general election in November 2008.
Am I sure Hilary Clinton will be the Democratic Party nominee? No. But I do think Senator Barack Obama’s popularity is in the process of peaking. And part of that has been caused by the Clinton machine’s major connections in all parts of Demcrat World, and their willingness to play rough in campaigns that challenge them directly.
What about John Edwards? This man’s current status is that of a losing vice presidential nominee, from an election that will be four years old next year. He gave up his US Senate seat to pursue the vice presidency. How many people remembered Jack Kemp, Dan Lloyd Bentsen, Geraldine Ferraro, Sargent Shriver, Thomas Eagleton, Edwin Muskie or William Miller?
The presidential elections are the biggest league of all, and they are totally unforgiving for losers. Besides, Cheney, a careful, well prepared and dryly didactic debater, made Edwards sound like some BillyJoeBob from the backwoods during the vice presidential campaign debate in the summer of 2004. At one point, Edwards was reduced to making whooping hoo-hahs while Cheney was talking, and I am certain these were recorded on the videotapes for posterity, and that the Clintonistas will put them to appropriate use if Edwards’ presidential run seems threatening. Act like an idiot even for a second while on television, and it follows you to the grave. As Howard Dean.
Arnold Harris
Mount Horeb WI
March 14th, 2007 at 12:36 pm
Act like an idiot even for a second while on television, and it follows you to the grave. Ask Howard Dean.
I’d rather ask George W. Bush but it wouldn’t exactly prove your point.
As for Giuliani, I’m not sure McCain’s attack dogs have even begun to work on him yet. His nomination is not assured by any means. Before they’re done with him, people might actually believe he was flying one of the jets that hit the WTC on 9/11.
It’s Giuliani who may have peaked — his margin over McCain is already narrowing in the latest polls.
And if he does survive the primaries and gets the nomination, I’m not so sure he’ll run to the center — not if he wants the base vote. I used to think that voters would be turned off when they discover that RG was really a “crazy, mean, dangerous authoritarian” as mayor of New York. But, as Andrew Golis points out, this may be the very reason that Republicans give him the nomination. In other words, don’t be surprised if he dominates the the anti-Muslim niche in the Republican party.
March 14th, 2007 at 3:17 pm
Ara,
McCain is detested among most establishment Republicans, to no small degree because of this co-authoring of the McCain-Feingold election finance “reforms”, which, in comparing their purposes to their results, are starting to resemble the Volstead act of the early 20th century.
In addition, Senator already is far too old to be given credibility in a presential campaign. He was born in August 1936, when I was two years old. He will be 72 years old during the election late next year, and 76-1/2 years old when he finishes his term, if he does not die in office. All this would make him the most geriatric of all US presidents, I think, in a culture which has little or no use for the aged.
He also is known to have an all but uncontrollable and raging temper, which he has displayed on numerous occasions — some quasi-public. The obvious strategy that will be used against him at any debate by professional handlers who know their stuff and are heavily paid for it, will be to induce him to pop his cork on prime time television before a viewing audience of scores of millions of persons.
Any other bright ideas for the Republicans in this coming election?
Arnold Harris
Mount Horeb WI
March 14th, 2007 at 3:32 pm
Any other bright ideas for the Republicans in this coming election?
Nope. Y’all are doing fine all by yourselves.
Giuliani, McCain, Romney, Brownback, I’m just going to sit back and enjoy the show.
March 14th, 2007 at 8:24 pm
Brownback? You forgot to mention Harold Stassen.
November 15th, 2007 at 2:33 pm
Rudy leaves a lot to be desired, imho. Yes, he is a politician, but I think that his campaign is starting to show a few stress fractures. Granted, he doesn’t laugh at the “B” word, which is a big plus, but he has the ability to self-destruct at the right moment. In fact, look for Rudy to doing some doublespeak as the current scandal unfolds.
November 27th, 2007 at 12:16 am
Ron, don’t forget that today Jim(f—the Jews)Baker is a foreign agent and a foreigner all together.